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AW Groupies/Chat Logs/AWGroupies-2008-04-29
AW Groupies/Chat Logs/AWGroupies-2008-04-29
[9:27] Saijanai Kuhn : high all and bye
[9:27] Saijanai Kuhn : afk
[9:27] SignpostMarv Martin : boo
[9:29] SignpostMarv Martin : ^the grid as it looks now
[9:29] Enus Linden : yoo much water
[9:29] Enus Linden : need to fill that in with some land!
[9:29] SignpostMarv Martin : the actual data shows the grid is a fair bit larger
[9:29] SignpostMarv Martin : I've cropped it to visible sims
[9:30] SignpostMarv Martin : the images are in https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Images_of_Agni
[9:33] SignpostMarv Martin : need to mess about with the joystick flycam settings for "native" Wiimote support vs keyboard control
[9:34] Zha Ewry : Not a huge crowd
[9:35] Rex Cronon : hello everybody
[9:36] Rex Cronon : thank you for the tp
[9:38] Zha Ewry : SL has been cranky this morning. I'm goign to give it a couple mor eminutes and we'll get started
[9:39] Zha Ewry : passes Goldie the hair dryer
[9:39] Goldie Katsu : I really should remember to wear a swimsuit
[9:39] Davina Glitter : hehe
[9:41] Zha Ewry : OK
[9:41] Zha Ewry : I htink we'll decalre a quorum
[9:42] Zha Ewry : So... Enus asked for some time on test harnesses
[9:42] Zha Ewry : and.. that's a really good topic
[9:43] Enus Linden : we'd talked about this once, a while back, and am hoping to get moving in the direction of putting something together...
[9:43] Zha Ewry : In particular, there are sort of two parts to the topic
[9:43] Rex Cronon : are we going to dicsuss how LL does it?
[9:43] Zha Ewry : I thnk we're going to dicuss how we all want to do it
[9:44] Zha Ewry : For example
[9:44] Zha Ewry : I am finding I need to have a test harness, which sends to a Sim, what the Agent Domain sends as a rez-avatar call
[9:45] Zha Ewry : and, of course, since that's a several step little dance, it needs to catch back some stuff fromt he sim
[9:45] Zha Ewry : As we define more stuff, it would be really nice if we had a general approach to:
[9:45] Zha Ewry : spit out well formed requests
[9:45] Zha Ewry : And handle simple responses, to allow multistep tests to run
[9:46] Zha Ewry : There are sort of three or four related things in here, I think
[9:46] Zha Ewry : An easy way of making requests/handlers
[9:47] Zha Ewry : Some way, of sharing some scafodling, so we don't keep re-inventing the basic respons stuff
[9:47] Zha Ewry : and.. possibly a way of pluging in lots of seperatly authored bits into a bigger test harness over time
[9:47] Goldie Katsu : nods
[9:48] Zha Ewry : So.. we have, at least three parts to simulate, now
[9:48] Zha Ewry : (Client) (agent domain) (region simulator)
[9:48] Zha Ewry : and.. over time
[9:48] Zha Ewry : (not to distant)
[9:48] Zha Ewry : Asset server
[9:49] Enus Linden : to simulate being to have an environment to test against zha, or...?
[9:49] Zha Ewry : Well
[9:49] Zha Ewry : In the second and third proposed steps we want to test with OpenSim
[9:49] Zha Ewry : Fetching assets comes into play
[9:50] Zha Ewry : At that point, it would be good
[9:50] Zha Ewry : to be able to have a simple web service, that acts like the asset cloud and returns some canned objects
[9:50] Zha Ewry : (Define a set of 10-20 UUIDs or REST URLS, and have a cnnonical set of test assets)
[9:51] Umeko Kawanishi : what about test avatars, zha?
[9:51] Zha Ewry : Good point
[9:51] Enus Linden : ah yes, best practices
[9:51] Zha Ewry : The agent domain, would benefit fromt hat
[9:52] Zha Ewry : Test aves, with test inventories
[9:52] Zha Ewry : In fact
[9:52] Zha Ewry : we could easily set up a smalls et of test resources all linked together
[9:52] Zha Ewry : Test Dummy
[9:52] Zha Ewry : With a small inv
[9:52] Zha Ewry : in the agent domain
[9:52] Zha Ewry : A test tim
[9:52] Zha Ewry : *sim
[9:52] Goldie Katsu : Can we get a test dummy skin for it?
[9:52] Zha Ewry : with a small set of assets
[9:52] Zha Ewry : and then..
[9:52] Zha Ewry : an asset server test harness that maytches
[9:53] SignpostMarv Martin : ^isn't there a Ruth-like avatar distributed with OpenSim ?
[9:53] Enus Linden : my reservation about Test Dummy is a potential for griefing, i've been wondering how best to do this...
[9:53] Zha Ewry : Well
[9:53] Zha Ewry : We don't need a main grid asset set for this
[9:53] Zha Ewry : Tho..
[9:53] Zha Ewry : I suppsoe it woudl be uber cool, if they matched
[9:53] Enus Linden : i would like to be able to run the same sets of tests
[9:53] Davina Glitter : Grey goo avi... :)
[9:53] Enus Linden : on any grid
[9:53] Zha Ewry : right
[9:54] Goldie Katsu : A way to document the tests would be useful...so that regression testing could be added and verified for its presence.
[9:54] Umeko Kawanishi : what about the "ruth-like" avatar that signpostMarv spoke of? i don't know much about it
[9:55] Enus Linden : perhaps initially we allow user data to be data driven, and defined by the test environment, that is, a template for the data is included with the harness
[9:55] Zha Ewry : Ruth is in the client
[9:55] Enus Linden : but the contents ned to be updated with actual agent info prior to execution
[9:55] Goldie Katsu : thinks that sounds like a ghost in the machine.
[9:55] Enus Linden : not ideal...
[9:55] SignpostMarv Martin : it's in assets\Avatar\Newruth
[9:55] Enus Linden : but am hesitant to put a username and password anywhere publicaly accessible
[9:56] Zha Ewry : Yeah, not one that works on main grid and even aditi
[9:56] SignpostMarv Martin : 5 jpeg2k's and a settings file
[9:57] Rex Cronon : how about temp passwords, that work for only a limited time
[9:57] Zha Ewry : Hard to do
[9:57] Goldie Katsu : Is there a way to test asset, agent and sim (and client) indepenedently of each other.
[9:57] Enus Linden : new agent for each test is an option...
[9:57] Zha Ewry : That's why I want to have test harneses for each part
[9:57] Goldie Katsu : Ok, just clarifying.
[9:58] Zha Ewry : I am imaginging we'll have
[9:58] Zha Ewry : Small basic web server parts for the Agent, Region and grid bits
[9:58] Zha Ewry : and a more complex thing for the client
[9:58] Zha Ewry : Ideally, some simple snap in framework for the first three
[9:58] SignpostMarv Martin : ^svn link to the ruth-like avatar in OpenSim: [1]
[9:59] Zha Ewry : Basic REST handler
[9:59] Zha Ewry : And a way of snapping in a assembly to handle each request
[9:59] Umeko Kawanishi : thanks signpostmarv
[10:00] Enus Linden : llpython ftw....
[10:00] Enus Linden : : )
[10:00] Zha Ewry : Well
[10:00] Zha Ewry : grins
[10:00] Zha Ewry : We clearly wnat phthon
[10:00] Zha Ewry : we also want some parts in at least one other language
[10:00] Zha Ewry : otherwise, we don't drive some of the issues what show up in on the wire/vs code defintinon of interop
[10:00] Enus Linden : yes
[10:01] Zha Ewry : (Python tends to deliver things in dict order, for example)
[10:01] Enus Linden : so repo for this test harness is becoming a priority: i've floated options internally and have come up with LL creating a new branch in svn, and publishing that as if it were a source code drop as needed. if not as familiar with the svn -> awg flow as i should be, i'll fix that. does that sound reasonable, or no?
[10:01] Zha Ewry : Unless the spec calls for this
[10:01] Zha Ewry : we want to allow them to be non ordered
[10:01] Enus Linden : k
[10:01] Zha Ewry : And. That would be good. If we got hat route?
[10:02] Zha Ewry : I'd like to suggest we try for an ApahceV2 or similar license, like Whihc Linden has done on the c-http work
[10:02] Zha Ewry : I'd like to be able to share the core test harness stuff with the OpenSim, LibSL, and any other communities which want to play
[10:03] Enus Linden : k, i'll follow up with you and which on that then...
[10:04] Zha Ewry : So.. I'd suggest we aim for a structur where we have one basic shell
[10:04] Zha Ewry : Which handles caps (and sadly, maybe the UDP pipe)
[10:04] Zha Ewry : and then has a very simple top level way of passing off requests to simple handlers
[10:04] Zha Ewry : Build out an skeletel Agent Domain, Region Domain, and eventually some of the services
[10:05] Zha Ewry : I'm less sure on the client side
[10:06] Enus Linden : who? when? which bits? what order? type questions come to mind...
[10:06] Zha Ewry : IF we do it right, we also, make it farly easy to plug in handlers in non pyhton languages
[10:06] Zha Ewry : grins
[10:06] Zha Ewry : Well.. we need:
[10:06] Zha Ewry : a simple caps hander
[10:06] Zha Ewry : the long queue code
[10:06] Zha Ewry : and a very simple way to add message handlers
[10:06] Zha Ewry : That would be a good starting point
[10:07] Zha Ewry : I think that some of what Which has done (and possibly Donovan) in the c-http work might be adaptable
[10:08] Enus Linden : i'll take the task of summarizing and posting to sldev all of the above.
[10:08] Zha Ewry : Cool
[10:08] Zha Ewry : One related thing which will likely happen, in the mid-term
[10:08] Tess Linden : the long queue is mainly useful for messages that go from server -> client
[10:09] Zha Ewry : is that I'm going to re-code the caps severer on OpenSim, as a hgiher performance
[10:09] Zha Ewry : version
[10:09] Zha Ewry : and we might adapt that as asecond test base
[10:09] Zha Ewry : Right
[10:09] Tess Linden : I dont know if we need any of those yet for login and teleport
[10:09] Zha Ewry : We'll need that in at least the region simulator
[10:09] Zha Ewry : Well
[10:09] Zha Ewry : Long term, we will want it
[10:09] Zha Ewry : To do a full up version
[10:09] Zha Ewry : I'd be happy, if we don't need it at all at first
[10:09] Enus Linden : i'd like to contribute as much as is reasonable, but will primarily be interested in facilitating the work for the group overall.
[10:10] Umeko Kawanishi : just a status check--has anyone started test cases in opensim yet?
[10:10] Zha Ewry : I am currently ripping open the OpenSim caps handler
[10:10] Enus Linden : who in awg is interested in playing with this part of the work? is that know?
[10:11] Enus Linden : i'll find out that answer : )
[10:11] Zha Ewry : Wel, I am
[10:11] Zha Ewry : Tao has expressed repeated interest
[10:11] Zha Ewry : Saijanai
[10:11] Enus Linden : naturally
[10:12] Enus Linden : kk
[10:12] Zha Ewry : In moments of red-bull inspired enthusiasm, Gareth Ellison
[10:12] Rex Cronon : u could make a group notice enus
[10:12] Enus Linden : wings = testing inspiration?!
[10:12] Zha Ewry : shakes her head
[10:12] Enus Linden : will do rex, ty
[10:12] Zha Ewry : its safe to say, Gareth is red-bull powered
[10:15] Enus Linden : don did some work over the weekend putting together a python login and caps oriented script
[10:15] Zha Ewry : Hello Teravus
[10:15] Teravus Ousley : Hi
[10:15] Enus Linden : i've going to requisition this for our uses, as well as sai's login work, as first commits to svn... starting points
[10:16] Enus Linden : starting to define the harness will come next, i'll see if sai wants to document, or if he has enough on his plate...
[10:16] Zha Ewry : Sound great
[10:16] Zha Ewry : Any additional test harness topics?
[10:17] Rex Cronon : creating an automated testing harness for the viewer might be kind of hard
[10:18] Enus Linden : 's action item: to boil this down and post to sldev, talk to zha and which about c-http and svn, and start moving toward docs for harness
[10:18] Rex Cronon : as a user has to actually look at the screen and see the results
[10:18] Enus Linden : agreed
[10:18] Enus Linden : but i think awg's work is not focused on viewers
[10:19] Enus Linden : it's oriented toward protocols that define agent-> agetndomain -> sim
[10:19] Enus Linden : spelled nicely of course
[10:19] Goldie Katsu : or at least spelled nicely sometimes.
[10:19] Enus Linden : our test harness should essentially be a client on it's own
[10:20] Zha Ewry : Exactly Enus
[10:20] Enus Linden : ll has their's, libsl has their's, there are others... but this client/harness is written against protocols collectively defined and freshly implemented
[10:21] Goldie Katsu : There might be a few forms of the client on its own as well.
[10:21] Enus Linden : mmm new bots
[10:22] Zha Ewry : listens for a moment
[10:22] Zha Ewry : Yes
[10:22] Zha Ewry : I think we really want a clean sheet of paper on the test client
[10:23] Goldie Katsu : I think breaking down the functionality to its smallest units may be useful.
[10:23] Goldie Katsu : (Smallest testable units)
[10:24] Goldie Katsu : Identifying dependencies might be useful too.
[10:24] Zha Ewry : I am inclinded to agree Goldie, especialy as we look at regression testing
[10:24] Enus Linden : it's certainly blank atm... i'd like to suggest that the tests themselves are written to test the protocols as defined in the public domain
[10:24] Enus Linden : and that the harness is structures as zha pointed out in such a way that we can enable using the smallest unit of tests in creative and grrouped/sequenced ways
[10:25] Enus Linden : a unit test works on it's own
[10:25] Zha Ewry : Right
[10:25] Zha Ewry : One thing that we ought to be able to do, is compose up short simple sets of tests
[10:25] Goldie Katsu : Testing the protocols definitely seems essential. and the security person in me suggests testing what happens with malformed packets to make sure it handles exceptions correctly.
[10:26] Zha Ewry : "Login as Test Dummy. on Domain X, login to a sim on Domain Y, fetch the connonicaal assets frm DFomain Z"
[10:26] Enus Linden : yes yes yes
[10:26] Rex Cronon : so what do u need for a bare-bone client?
[10:26] Goldie Katsu : and now i have to run
[10:26] Zha Ewry : Login in
[10:26] Rex Cronon : a thread that listens for udp packets
[10:26] Goldie Katsu : waves and poofs
[10:26] Zha Ewry : And UDP
[10:26] Zha Ewry : and.. queue handler
[10:26] Rex Cronon : bye goldie
[10:27] Zha Ewry : and the ability to do the basic
[10:27] Zha Ewry : /bye goldie
[10:27] Zha Ewry : stuff to get logged on
[10:27] Rex Cronon : another thread for tcp communication
[10:27] Rex Cronon : a buffer to store for each thread
[10:27] SignpostMarv Martin : needs to log as he's expecting a delivery
[10:27] SignpostMarv Martin : toodles peeps
[10:27] Rex Cronon : bye singpostmarv
[10:28] Zha Ewry : Yeah I think we'll, in time
[10:28] Enus Linden : i'll boil all of the above into sldev mail and wiki contributions as i said....
[10:29] Umeko Kawanishi : btw, are the test cases we are talking about here functionality-based, or performance-based?
[10:29] Rex Cronon : and a class called Test that everybody extends, which has function named runTest, that u overwrite
[10:29] Zha Ewry : need to be able to handle connections to the Agent Domain, a region, and child regions
[10:29] Enus Linden : functional initially imo
[10:29] Enus Linden : performance suites can follow?
[10:29] Umeko Kawanishi : i see
[10:30] Enus Linden : is a question... really
[10:30] Enus Linden : we can do what we collectively want
[10:30] Enus Linden : i'd prefer unit tests that make sure what is implemented works
[10:30] Umeko Kawanishi : so is the current way of functionality in either opensim or sl very manual?
[10:30] Enus Linden : then we can see how well it works
[10:30] Umeko Kawanishi : functionality testing, i mean
[10:31] Enus Linden : ll has their own internal unit tests
[10:31] Enus Linden : zha: opensim?
[10:31] Teravus Ousley : OpenSimulator: currently.. but we're actively working to add unit tests and an automated testing routine on commit
[10:32] Enus Linden : is gonna brush up on opensim now :)
[10:32] Teravus Ousley : Adam in particular is working on the automated testing routine.
[10:32] Teravus Ousley : :D just added attachments over the weekend to SVN.
[10:32] Teravus Ousley : Prim.State = (byte) attachmentpoint. Sneaky
[10:33] Teravus Ousley : :D
[10:33] Umeko Kawanishi : looking forward to trying it
[10:33] Zha Ewry : I think, on the whole?
[10:34] Zha Ewry : Testing is pretty limited on both sides
[10:34] Zha Ewry : Its a hard, time consuming process
[10:34] Zha Ewry : especialy witht he old UDP message template stuff
[10:34] Zha Ewry : I'm hoping that one of the nice things that falla out of this
[10:34] Zha Ewry : is making sure that the on wire prrotocls are easier to test
[10:35] Zha Ewry : In general, the more seperate, decoupled and well broken out they are
[10:35] Zha Ewry : both the better they will behave in use
[10:35] Zha Ewry : and the easier to test
[10:35] Enus Linden : amen, and amen
[10:35] Enus Linden : : )
[10:36] Zha Ewry : tess?
[10:36] Zha Ewry : I think you had a topic you wanted to bring up?
[10:36] Zha Ewry : sees if Tess is jet lagged, or awake ;--)
[10:36] Tess Linden : oh yes, I just came back from a 2 week vacation
[10:37] Tess Linden : have we discussed the teleport protocols yet at AWG?
[10:37] Zha Ewry : Not in detail, no
[10:37] Tess Linden : we have some diagrams to post, but I'd like to discuss that, and ask about naming certain web services
[10:39] Zha Ewry : listens
[10:39] Zha Ewry : Naming, in what sense?
[10:39] Tess Linden : heres the rough protocol
[10:39] Tess Linden : I dont think we have enough time to discuss, so I'll just paste it here
[10:39] Tess Linden : v --> send me to sb (rez_avatar) --> ad
[10:40] Tess Linden : ad ---> will you take v? (will_you_take_v) -------------------> sb
[10:40] Tess Linden : ad <... sure, data pipe cap ..................... sb
[10:40] Tess Linden : ad --> give up v to pipe --> sa
[10:40] Tess Linden : sa --- agent packet (teleport_agent) --> sb
[10:40] Tess Linden : sa <... 200 .. seed, info .. sb
[10:40] Tess Linden : sa remove v
[10:40] Tess Linden : ad <.... 200 .. seed, info ..............sa
[10:40] Tess Linden : v <- tp complete, seed- ad
[10:41] Zha Ewry : v is?
[10:41] Rex Cronon : v=?, ad=?, sb=?
[10:41] Zha Ewry : ad=agent domain
[10:41] Zha Ewry : yes?
[10:43] Tess Linden : v is viewer
[10:43] Tess Linden : ad is agent domain
[10:43] Tess Linden : sa is sim a
[10:43] Tess Linden : and sb is sim b
[10:43] Zha Ewry : ahh
[10:43] Zha Ewry : Viewer
[10:43] Zha Ewry : palm smacks
[10:43] Zha Ewry : (or is that head palms)
[10:44] Rex Cronon : is this using tcp? right?
[10:45] Tess Linden : yes, it will be over caps
[10:45] Teravus Ousley : okay, naming?
[10:45] Teravus Ousley : isn't quite sure what we're naming :D
[10:46] Tess Linden : what should (will_you_take_v) and (give_up_v_to_pipe) be called?
[10:47] Zha Ewry : Ahh
[10:47] Zha Ewry : So, REST
[10:47] Teravus Ousley : nods and hrmms
[10:47] Zha Ewry : what's the state we're trying to trasnger
[10:47] Rex Cronon : if u could provide what is sent during each step, type of each data, and an example. that will be very helpfull:)
[10:47] Zha Ewry : *transfer
[10:47] Zha Ewry : And what's the state its ending in
[10:48] Zha Ewry : The state is the avatar?
[10:48] Zha Ewry : The question is
[10:48] Zha Ewry : Can you let this avatat rez here?
[10:48] Teravus Ousley : should probably have something like authorize_token_for_agent.. or something for (will_you_take_v)
[10:49] Zha Ewry : Hmm
[10:49] Zha Ewry : We're gettigng back a seed cap?
[10:49] Teravus Ousley : presumably we're sending some kind of auth data.
[10:49] Teravus Ousley : .. or the agent domain is.
[10:49] Tess Linden : we're getting back a cap, not a seed cap
[10:49] Zha Ewry : Ah
[10:49] Zha Ewry : OK
[10:49] Tess Linden : the cap should be named (give_up_v_to_pipe)
[10:49] Zha Ewry : so we're rquestoing a cap to rez an avayar
[10:50] Tess Linden : its more a cap to derez
[10:50] Zha Ewry : Hmm
[10:50] Zha Ewry : Well that's a little odd
[10:50] Zha Ewry : because, the de-rez happens on A, but we're askgn for the new cap on B
[10:51] Zha Ewry : I understand the reasoning
[10:51] Zha Ewry : Just.. tryign to think abotu the implied messages
[10:51] Teravus Ousley : yep, :D box the agent up into a safe and happy boat so it can be transferred safely
[10:51] Tess Linden : hm you're right zha
[10:51] Tess Linden : the protocol is incorrect then. sb should give ad a cap to (teleport_agent)
[10:52] Zha Ewry : So
[10:52] Zha Ewry : COuple of interestign thoughts
[10:52] Zha Ewry : One is that we're righ on the edge of a call that wants to be acid
[10:52] Zha Ewry : or at least transqactional
[10:52] Teravus Ousley : The only issue potentially is you'd have to re-rez your avatar if you derezed without knowing if the new place will accept you.
[10:53] Zha Ewry : (eg. c-http_ space
[10:53] Zha Ewry : well,
[10:53] Zha Ewry : one nice thing is that you don't lose your connection to the AD
[10:53] Zha Ewry : so you can always have the viewer and the AD
[10:53] Zha Ewry : returty
[10:53] Zha Ewry : *retry
[10:54] Zha Ewry : But
[10:54] Zha Ewry : what we're doing is tryign to keep
[10:54] Zha Ewry : One and only one active connection to a simulator, yes?
[10:54] Tess Linden : yes
[10:54] Zha Ewry : So
[10:55] Zha Ewry : We're saying "Hey, new region, willy you take this avatar to be your lawfully rezed agent?"
[10:55] Tess Linden : you also have agent state that is transfered from one sim to another
[10:55] Zha Ewry : It says "Yeah, I can do that thing, here is a cap to use"
[10:55] Tess Linden : the agent domain isnt a part of that transaction
[10:55] Tess Linden : yep!
[10:55] Zha Ewry : No, but, in the worst case, we're still connect to the ad
[10:55] Tess Linden : yes
[10:55] Zha Ewry : so. we can regroup
[10:56] Tess Linden : we would have to make sure that sa definitely gives you up
[10:56] Zha Ewry : right
[10:57] Zha Ewry : That's a general issue in TP
[10:58] Teravus Ousley : ghost agents, yay
[10:58] Teravus Ousley : :D
[10:59] Zha Ewry : So..
[10:59] Zha Ewry : We get the new caop
[10:59] Zha Ewry : *cap
[10:59] Zha Ewry : We then close out the old one, and then, and only then try to use the new one?
[10:59] Tess Linden : Hm, sa will have to remove v before finalizing the transfer
[11:00] Zha Ewry : So
[11:00] Zha Ewry : SA tells the viewer "you're gone"
[11:01] Zha Ewry : and when it sees that happen, then it tells SB
[11:01] Zha Ewry : "Now go and connect to v?"
[11:01] Zha Ewry : Presumably
[11:01] Zha Ewry : If things break along the way
[11:01] Zha Ewry : we have several hanging bits of possible state
[11:01] Teravus Ousley : .. well, more likely it tells v to connect to sb, and then issues the packet to shut down the connection
[11:01] Tess Linden : I think sa doesnt have to tell v anything until the very end
[11:02] Zha Ewry : Its the one and only one, that is nervous makinbg
[11:02] Rex Cronon : i am trying to get to the havok4 office hour. sadly map tp doesn't work:(
[11:02] Tess Linden : just the responsibility is switched to the new sim
[11:02] Rex Cronon : bye everybody
[11:02] Zha Ewry : Bye Rex
[11:02] Tess Linden : sorry, I have to head off to another meeting
[11:02] Teravus Ousley : tc, Rex
[11:02] Zha Ewry : OK
[11:02] Zha Ewry : I think we can pick up with this tho
[11:02] Rex Cronon : have fun:)
[11:02] Enus Linden : smae here, offski
[11:02] Zha Ewry : And.. I think it was really good
[11:02] Enus Linden : ty zha
[11:02] Teravus Ousley : tc :D
[11:02] Tess Linden : thanks zha
[11:02] Zha Ewry : Gettig the names lined up
[11:02] Zha Ewry : and the messaging about the semantcis clear
[11:02] Zha Ewry : will really help
[11:03] Zha Ewry : Thanks all