AW Groupies/Chat Logs/AWGroupies-2009-01-27

[9:34] Zha Ewry: Urp?
[9:35] Zha Ewry: Wow. Wonky script lag
[9:35] Asterion Coen: saij with all those mondialisation business, im sure a day we will be abble to export to you some of our cold :)
[9:35] Asterion Coen: and we will buy back some warm ones
[9:35] Zha Ewry: Morning all
[9:35] Imaze Rhiano: -20 cold... -30 freezing... -40 cold as in hell...
[9:35] Morgaine Dinova: No lag, must be ropey IBM hardware ;-)
[9:35] Dahlia Trimble: hi :)
[9:36] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Dahlia
[9:36] Imaze Rhiano: hi Dahlia
[9:36] Zha Ewry: Sanity preserving tip for everyone... The danger of saying "Yeah, we could do that"
[9:36] Zha Ewry: is that people will then make you do that
[9:36] Imaze Rhiano: how is idealist viewer?
[9:36] Asterion Coen: imaze im realy realy happy (with a big H) to havent born in finland or arround :)
[9:36] Dahlia Trimble: hoavent worked on it much lately
[9:36] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[9:36] Saijanai Kuhn: Hey Rex
[9:36] Anamolie Poitier: hi all
[9:37] Rex Cronon: hi
[9:37] Asterion Coen: i would prefere hawaii temperature, more adequate about my body :)
[9:37] Imaze Rhiano: life is too easy there - makes people lazy
[9:38] Imaze Rhiano: what we have in agenda?
[9:38] Saijanai Kuhn: what Hawaii needs is a good old fashioned mini-iceage
[9:38] BlueWall Slade: they can have ours, it they want
[9:39] Zha Ewry: Not a ton of stuff. I've been snagged for the past 10 days helping show people how to use SL to do reasl work
[9:39] Saijanai Kuhn: Zha's been threaten^H^H^H^H^H^H^H promising an agenda
[9:39] Dahlia Trimble: SL™ does real work?
[9:39] Zha Ewry: chuckles
[9:39] Morgaine Dinova: AD?
[9:40] Zha Ewry: Well, we're going to do a part of a divisional kick off in SL
[9:40] Saijanai Kuhn: I've gotten paid RL money to show people how to use it
[9:40] Zha Ewry: which means getting 12 sites and 20 some odd people properly set up to do high quality voice in SL
[9:40] Zha Ewry: On the AD Front....
[9:41] Zha Ewry: I have the thin aehterial cord stretched from end to end.. I can get logged on and handle a place avatar onto an OGP region
[9:41] Asterion Coen: zha oh, and how r the business in SL actualy ? :) mine r like ... falling down!
[9:41] Asterion Coen: hopefully i got some projects
[9:41] Zha Ewry: and crash explicably on TP
[9:42] Zha Ewry: (as in I know why it crashes)
[9:42] Saijanai Kuhn: that's interesting
[9:42] Saijanai Kuhn: ah EXplicably not INex...
[9:42] Dahlia Trimble: viewer crashes?
[9:42] Saijanai Kuhn: AD I'm guessing
[9:43] Zha Ewry: Actually, at the moment, I'm making net's web requester code throw exceptions
[9:43] Zha Ewry: Which has to do with what happens when you throw it an oddly enough mal-formed URL to use
[9:43] Imaze Rhiano: dot.NET?
[9:43] Zha Ewry: aye
[9:44] Imaze Rhiano: if you want - I can help you to debug it...
[9:44] Zha Ewry: So.. I do have pretty much all the flows sorted out, and parsed and passed correctly in LLDL
[9:45] Zha Ewry: I need to do a bunch of bookeeping code, so I can properly keep track fo the current state of people as they move about, and then look at simple persistence
[9:45] Zha Ewry: I'm also having the usual gentle discussions with our peolpe who manage such things about how and when we will release code
[9:45] Asterion Coen: :)
[9:45] Zha Ewry: its coded as a standalong OpenSIm based service
[9:45] Imaze Rhiano: ooo... you are going to patent everything :P
[9:45] Saijanai Kuhn: the joys of OSS in a FOrtune 100 company
[9:46] Zha Ewry: Zero mods to base code
[9:46] Zha Ewry: There is not exactly anything to patent
[9:46] Zha Ewry: But... I have to sort of prove that to the powers that be
[9:46] Imaze Rhiano: ya... sorry - you have already patented them :P
[9:46] Morgaine Dinova: That's never stopped anyone in the US :P
[9:46] Zha Ewry: ponders
[9:47] Zha Ewry: "A method and apparatus for transatlantic legal slagging based on the presumption that all things American are over litigated"
[9:47] Dahlia Trimble: lol
[9:47] Zha Ewry: Claim 1. The means of constructing a dismisive comlpaint about a facet of the American legal system
[9:48] Zha Ewry: Claim 2. The means of claim 1 where the complaint is about coffee
[9:48] Zha Ewry: Claim 2. The means of claim 1, where the complaint is about IPR
[9:48] Imaze Rhiano: :P
[9:48] Zha Ewry: But.. i digress
[9:48] Morgaine Dinova: lol
[9:49] Zha Ewry: My aim is to get the code stable without persistence, and get it up on gridforge
[9:49] Asterion Coen: i didnt know zha has some humouristic skills =)
[9:49] Morgaine Dinova: She doesn't.
[9:49] Morgaine Dinova: (Actually it was hilarious :P)
[9:49] Asterion Coen: lol
[9:49] Zha Ewry: I don't have a BS, I actually have a BA from a proper liberal arts school which believed in teaching things like writing and history and humor
[9:50] Morgaine Dinova: More importantly, BA students hold more parties
[9:50] Asterion Coen: sadly u converted all of them with some inintelligble maths equations :)
[9:50] Zha Ewry: So.. while I'm sort of heads down coding and herding cats
[9:51] Imaze Rhiano: ooooooookaaaaaayyyy... so code is not yet ready for publish - what we are going to ask from Zero tonight?
[9:51] Zha Ewry: we have an nice opprotinity to think about what we might add to the current OGP AD
[9:51] Goldie Katsu: hmmm seems I missed the important part coming in late.
[9:51] Morgaine Dinova: Zha ... we need that AD. Can't you release something that half works?
[9:51] Zha Ewry: (and matching OpenSim code) to do things which aren't in plan yet
[9:51] Zha Ewry: As soon as I propritate lawyers, and the people who pay me to do stuff Morgaine
[9:52] BlueWall Slade: half works? we already have SL
[9:52] Zha Ewry: chuckles
[9:52] Imaze Rhiano: sl... working 1/4 :P
[9:52] Asterion Coen: 1/4 in the good days
[9:52] Zha Ewry: Some defensive coding would do the world a world of good
[9:52] Morgaine Dinova: I tried to pattern-match "propritate", but nothing came to mind.
[9:52] Goldie Katsu: .25 * .5 = .125
[9:53] Goldie Katsu: hmmm that doesn't look like the right direction
[9:54] Morgaine Dinova: Ah ... "execute"?
[9:54] Imaze Rhiano: what should be done after AD is published?
[9:54] Zha Ewry: Go down on bended knee and offer up small stacks of electronic paper before the gods of corporate open source particpation
[9:54] Morgaine Dinova: Ew
[9:54] Zha Ewry: Which seriously, shouldn't take *too* long
[9:54] Zha Ewry: So.. what I'm thinking is two fold
[9:54] Zha Ewry: If we want to do addiotnal stuff in an AD
[9:55] Zha Ewry: we need matching bits in the OGP module in OpenSIm (not hard)
[9:55] Zha Ewry: but for a bunch of stuff, changes to the client as well
[9:56] Zha Ewry: One thing, which comes to mind, is blending the hypergrid code with an open AD
[9:57] Saijanai Kuhn: The rock bottom basics is trivial Morgaine, its getting past assuming no errors that starts to get hard
[9:57] Zha Ewry: actually, the AD side, is pretty simple, all the way through
[9:57] Dahlia Trimble: what happened to Tao's AD?
[9:58] Saijanai Kuhn: Tao got sidetraciked with work
[9:58] Zha Ewry: As far as I can tell, Zero, and Tess, did a pretty good job of keeping it clean
[9:58] Zha Ewry: Saij?
[9:58] Zha Ewry: Did the pygop stuff get un-ZCA'd?
[9:58] Saijanai Kuhn: well, its straightforward from what I can tell, but I'm new to web programming, so error handling is somewhat more complext for me
[9:58] Saijanai Kuhn: yeah, just de-ZCA-ed the wx example code last night
[9:59] Saijanai Kuhn: the only ZCA bit left is the testrunner framework
[9:59] Saijanai Kuhn: but you don't need to use that to code the client
[9:59] Zha Ewry: ZCA may be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but actualyly getting it integrated into my development enviornemnt was spectactually not good
[10:00] Goldie Katsu: ZCA
[10:00] Goldie Katsu: ZCA's?
[10:00] Zha Ewry: Tao's python package and deployment scheme
[10:00] Saijanai Kuhn: Zope COmpenent Architecture. Python DB for swapping out libraries during runtime
[10:00] Goldie Katsu: ahh
[10:00] Saijanai Kuhn: a bit of overkill when you only have one library ATM
[10:00] Zha Ewry: I'm not a deep pythonista to begin with
[10:01] Zha Ewry: and this stuff does insanely clever and obscure python stuff
[10:01] Saijanai Kuhn: 3.0 will likely do everythign we need from ZCA anyway
[10:01] Zha Ewry: I'm much more of a fan of "utterly boring and easily understood by me"
[10:01] Dahlia Trimble: lol
[10:02] Rex Cronon: .
[10:02] Zha Ewry: So, the AD code I've done, is very basic C#, and simply builds on the basic OpenSim servcie framework
[10:02] Saijanai Kuhn: But Tao's a dedicated ZCA fan and when Enus took it out, he kinda wandered off
[10:03] Zha Ewry: Well, mroe to the point, Sija, ZCA is his baby, is it not?
[10:03] Saijanai Kuhn: he uses it, but don't think he wrote the module
[10:03] Zha Ewry: ah.
[10:04] Morgaine Dinova: Nothing stopping him continuing to use his ZCA version. Since ZCA is (supposedly) very powerful, he should be able to stay way ahead of the non-ZCA PyOGP.
[10:04] Dahlia Trimble: python seems so clanish sometimes
[10:04] Saijanai Kuhn: Its like NeXT but x-platform
[10:05] Zha Ewry: So... I'm open to two inputs
[10:05] Morgaine Dinova: All language people are clannish. That's why I'm not having anything to do with one-language systems, and make everything language agnostic --- like the plugins I'm doing for Imprudence.
[10:05] Zha Ewry: What extensions do we want to look at
[10:06] Morgaine Dinova: It Balkanizes the community, really bad
[10:06] Zha Ewry: And I do think a hypergird/OGP mashup is interesting
[10:06] Asterion Coen: (next, like nextstep on nextcube/station)?)
[10:06] Zha Ewry: and. are there things we want to do which would include client side changes..
[10:06] Saijanai Kuhn: Aterion yeah. FOr a REAL NeXTer, Cocoa isn't true NeXT
[10:07] Imaze Rhiano: what kind extension we are talking about?
[10:07] Dahlia Trimble: hypergrid is diva's baby so yo may want to get in touch with her
[10:07] Saijanai Kuhn: no DIsplay Postscript
[10:07] Zha Ewry: nods
[10:07] Asterion Coen: saij hehe, i got a nextstation with it's original nextstep :) with all the floopy disks :)
[10:07] Zha Ewry: Its on my list in my negative amounts of spare time
[10:07] Asterion Coen: ok, i never use it
[10:07] Morgaine Dinova: Zha: if I manage to get the plugins working in Imprudence (many months work), then I'll be looking to adding OGP handling next, mostly factored out into plugins of course.
[10:08] Zha Ewry: And, Morgaine, I totallya gree on the language independent bit
[10:08] Zha Ewry: The whole point of doing REST and web servcies
[10:08] Zha Ewry: is because it beocmes a lingua franca
[10:08] Morgaine Dinova: And I'll write it in Cobol or APL just to annoy modern language advocates ;-)
[10:08] BlueWall Slade: Morgaine, how hard would it be to put the financial transactions in CAPS?
[10:08] Asterion Coen: in cobol lol
[10:09] Zha Ewry: Mind you more like a Linga Lindenica give that its based on LLDL
[10:09] Saijanai Kuhn: BlueWall, you should talk to Which about that
[10:09] Asterion Coen: (wanna see SL on an as400)
[10:09] Morgaine Dinova: We don't have a framework for L$ transactions in caps yet
[10:09] Imaze Rhiano: sigh... only language what you need to know is assembler - so let's end this dicussion - What kind extensions we are talking about?
[10:09] Dahlia Trimble: coding event queue messages gave me a sour reminder of cobol :/
[10:09] BlueWall Slade: I know
[10:09] BlueWall Slade: lol, Dashlia
[10:09] BlueWall Slade: s/s//
[10:10] Asterion Coen: imaze hopeflly there is no more asm68000 :)
[10:10] Saijanai Kuhn: better than ix86
[10:10] Morgaine Dinova: Well I've written Hello World in Cobol, so I'm an expert ;-)
[10:10] Saijanai Kuhn: took 3 semesters from a student of Admiral Hopper
[10:10] Asterion Coen: hehe "hello world" :)
[10:11] Goldie Katsu: I supported COBOL
[10:11] Zha Ewry: I'd kind of like a LLDL deseralizer in ada, myself ;-)
[10:11] Asterion Coen: dunno why, all the books about language gegin with to display that sentence :)
[10:11] Asterion Coen: begin*
[10:11] Saijanai Kuhn: harkens back to the original c I think, or maybe B
[10:11] Imaze Rhiano: extensions?
[10:11] Morgaine Dinova: Ada's a fine language. I used to use it as a PDL when teaching SoftEng, did the job, not obscure.
[10:11] Dahlia Trimble: k&r language book clones
[10:12] Asterion Coen: i dunno what the use, today, about asm, as no one coders, sorry developpers, doesnt seem to want to optimize anything :)
[10:12] Saijanai Kuhn: good compiler can beat a mediocre assembly language coder anyway
[10:12] Zha Ewry: So...
[10:12] Asterion Coen: saij right
[10:13] Saijanai Kuhn: being mediocre in several languages
[10:13] Zha Ewry: I'm looking for specific proposals which might be of interest, ideally with enough detail that we can takl about them
[10:13] Dahlia Trimble: last time i did any assembly language was some MMX hacks embedded in c
[10:13] Asterion Coen: especialy since pentium cpu
[10:13] Morgaine Dinova: So is the AD implemented as a REST service?
[10:13] Goldie Katsu: yay K&R
[10:13] Dahlia Trimble: about 10 years ago
[10:13] Zha Ewry: The AD is a set of REST services
[10:13] Zha Ewry: Well, REST services and Caps
[10:14] Zha Ewry: I'm still lookign for a way to say "REST services and CAPs" which doesn't make me al ittle green around the gils
[10:14] Saijanai Kuhn: Slightly out of date, but givevs basic diagrams of what OGP does right now
[10:14] Saijanai Kuhn: [1]
[10:14] Zha Ewry: But basically, you expose a set of \agent\(Cap gorp)\resourceX
[10:14] Morgaine Dinova: Try CAP-enabled REST services ... still pukey?
[10:14] Asterion Coen: what about basic "print" command to print it not in green ? :)
[10:15] Asterion Coen: <- hides
[10:15] Zha Ewry: Well, part of the issue, Morgaine, is that Caps, are on the edge of bending REST out of normal shape
[10:16] Morgaine Dinova: Because the URI is no longer stateless at the server end?
[10:16] Saijanai Kuhn: must go A f k for a bit. Recording stil on
[10:16] Asterion Coen: have fun saij
[10:16] Zha Ewry: nods
[10:16] Morgaine Dinova: Cya Sai
[10:17] Zha Ewry: That bit of encoded state (tho shallow, in some sense)
[10:17] Zha Ewry: kind of mkes it hard to say "caps are RESTful"
[10:17] Imaze Rhiano: so... to Hypergrid - AD would remove need of separate foreign and local agents?
[10:17] Zha Ewry: I think it woudl formalize it more cleanly
[10:17] Zha Ewry: (hyper grid and AD)
[10:18] Morgaine Dinova: No, can have any number of ADs, so it formalizes the concept of "foreign" as meaning simply "another". Symmetric, not SL-centric
[10:18] Zha Ewry: What we really want, is for the Avatar to carry alongpointers back to one or more ADs
[10:18] Zha Ewry: Or rather
[10:18] Zha Ewry: one or more Iventory and asset servers
[10:18] Asterion Coen: emergency TP, i brb
[10:19] Zha Ewry: and not make it unusual to use them
[10:19] Imaze Rhiano: hypergrid is definately way to go ...
[10:19] Zha Ewry: No reason the teleports can't include some of those refs
[10:19] Morgaine Dinova: The avatar? Surely the agent. The avatar is provided by whichever world you';re in.
[10:19] Zha Ewry: Well
[10:20] Imaze Rhiano: I would start looking immediately how to get ad server working with hypergrid
[10:20] Zha Ewry: really, the "Regoin held avatar proxy"
[10:20] Zha Ewry: I tend to think the Agent(s) live in agent domains
[10:20] Zha Ewry: and project a presence onto regions
[10:20] Zha Ewry: Which tends to feel like a avatar_proxy
[10:20] Zha Ewry: or a agent_proxy
[10:21] Zha Ewry: depending on one's perspective
[10:21] Zha Ewry: its the bit of state in the sim which connects me back to the Agent and to the client
[10:21] Morgaine Dinova: Zha: what does our model say (if anything) about a given agent having an active presence in more than one world simulataneously, where those worlds are actually interopping too?
[10:21] Morgaine Dinova: (an aside)
[10:21] Zha Ewry: I would argue, it should not need to say *too* much with one exceptino
[10:21] Zha Ewry: and that exception is a notion of "presence"
[10:22] Zha Ewry: right now, presence is "Morgaine is on ThorneBridgeTown at 150,120,24:"
[10:22] Zha Ewry: if you allow a multiplly active exietsnce
[10:23] Asterion Coen: hi again !
[10:23] Zha Ewry: it becoems "Morgain is at (TBT x,y,z; Sim67 x1,y1,z1, weblin-page [2] sues chips firm for hot fish and chips#Ouch!)
[10:24] Rex Cronon: wb
[10:24] Morgaine Dinova: Cool. So you're saying that the model doesn't try to impose any specific policy about presence where it's not necessary. Ie. only where it would cause a clash, such as multiple X@loc.
[10:24] Zha Ewry: it seems to me, to be a very bad idea to impose singletons except by policy
[10:24] Asterion Coen: thx
[10:25] Zha Ewry: Its fine with me if an AD has a policy which says
[10:25] Zha Ewry: "I only allow my agents to rez in one place"
[10:25] Zha Ewry: Why bake that into the protocol?
[10:25] Zha Ewry: Mind you, I am not a huge fan of people being in multple places at once, but I'm not goign to stop them
[10:25] Dahlia Trimble: has rl planned today... bye all :)
[10:25] Imaze Rhiano: bye
[10:26] Rex Cronon: bye dahlia
[10:26] Asterion Coen: bye dahl :=)
[10:26] Zha Ewry: waves By Dah...
[10:26] Zha Ewry: and notices Dahlia has vanished
[10:26] Zha Ewry: sigh
[10:26] Imaze Rhiano: teleporting is too quick when it works..,.
[10:27] Asterion Coen: (when it works fine)
[10:27] Morgaine Dinova: We can't be in multiple places simultaneously in RL, but that's one of the advantages of VWs, we can. So a bar would be bad.
[10:27] Asterion Coen: i use to confirm 2 time a TP, once b4 i accept it, the secojnd one after i tp
[10:28] Asterion Coen: what do u mean by "in multiple place simultaneously" ?
[10:28] Asterion Coen: i mean, on SL
[10:28] Zha Ewry: Well, on Sl, you can only do it with alts
[10:29] Asterion Coen: yes, that's what i figured out :)
[10:29] Asterion Coen: so my ask
[10:29] Zha Ewry: But there is no good reason, not to be able to rez too copies of your ave at the same time, in terms of many things
[10:29] Asterion Coen: i dont see the interrest to be on several places at the same time
[10:29] Asterion Coen: (excepted maybe for meetings)
[10:29] Imaze Rhiano: someday we don't have AD servers anymore - AD information is stored to user's computer
[10:30] Morgaine Dinova: Alts are different to multiple presences, they have separate history, where all events in the life of a multi-presence av are multiplexed into the single history.
[10:30] Morgaine Dinova: Indeed, Imaze
[10:30] Zha Ewry: That model only works if your local machine is able to web serve, in geenral, imaze
[10:31] Morgaine Dinova: Nah Zha, don't need incoming TCP connections to be authoritative
[10:31] Morgaine Dinova: That's just an artifact of common practice.
[10:31] Zha Ewry: No, but you need a way for other people to discover your prescne
[10:31] Imaze Rhiano: that is why we have RD?
[10:31] Zha Ewry: Region Domain?
[10:32] Imaze Rhiano: ya
[10:32] Zha Ewry: That doesn't tell you which region you are in
[10:32] Zha Ewry: or more importantly
[10:32] Zha Ewry: doesn't tell other people
[10:32] Zha Ewry: A lot of stuff can migrate off towars user machines
[10:32] Morgaine Dinova: Just do something equivalent to an ARP publish.
[10:32] Zha Ewry: then the holder of the published record
[10:32] Zha Ewry: effectively becomes the defintive source
[10:33] Imaze Rhiano: facebook of the future
[10:33] Morgaine Dinova: You tell the AD that it's to pretend that it holds the authority, but to pass down requests to you.
[10:33] Morgaine Dinova: Becomes your proxy
[10:33] Zha Ewry: shrugs
[10:33] Zha Ewry: whether its holding it
[10:33] Morgaine Dinova: The current model is too provider-centric.
[10:33] Zha Ewry: or proxying it
[10:33] Zha Ewry: it looks the same to the other services
[10:34] Morgaine Dinova: yeah
[10:34] Zha Ewry: The details of where it gets the data is it's own buiness
[10:34] Zha Ewry: not external
[10:34] Zha Ewry: it can ask you
[10:34] Zha Ewry: store it in my sock drawer
[10:34] Imaze Rhiano: anyway... I think that we should start looking how to integrate AD to hypergrid next...
[10:34] Zha Ewry: or keep it on a Z/OS box in DB/2
[10:34] Morgaine Dinova: We'll have to get that functionality into ADs.
[10:35] Zha Ewry: From the other components in the world, the AD is charazterized by the interfaces it exposes, not how it services them
[10:35] Morgaine Dinova: Yeah
[10:35] Zha Ewry: goes hard core on the "I don't ever care to look inside boxes" view
[10:35] Morgaine Dinova: It'll take some fighting to get LL to accept not holding the authoritative record though.
[10:35] Zha Ewry: On the protocol level?
[10:36] Zha Ewry: if we do it right, they won't know
[10:36] Zha Ewry: the hard bit
[10:36] Zha Ewry: will be will they accept another AD
[10:36] Zha Ewry: as a trusted partner input
[10:36] Morgaine Dinova: If they don't then they've been trying to sell us a bridge all this time.
[10:36] Zha Ewry: which, again, is mostlly policy, not protocol
[10:36] Zha Ewry: Well, I look at it this way
[10:37] Zha Ewry: My interest it getting a good suite of protocols
[10:37] Zha Ewry: which allows people to make good, or bad policy choices
[10:37] Zha Ewry: I'll work with people who make good ones
[10:37] Morgaine Dinova: Good approach.
[10:38] Zha Ewry: One of the basic design points I'm coming to, is to make very sure the protocols *never* do policy when they don't have to
[10:38] Zha Ewry: Let them carry the informatoin to allow choices to be made
[10:38] Zha Ewry: and let the endpoints apply policy
[10:38] Zha Ewry: Which, btw, I think echos the web pretty well
[10:38] Asterion Coen: normal :)
[10:39] Zha Ewry: In general, http is pretty seperate from the access controls which a web server implements
[10:39] Zha Ewry: That's a very good thing
[10:40] Asterion Coen: the very bad one is that an admin have to add an armada of differents modules to do rules, and other sorts
[10:40] Zha Ewry: nods
[10:40] Zha Ewry: That is, tho, outside of the http spec
[10:40] Asterion Coen: that's how with 1 server (needed to work) you got a wall room full of materials
[10:41] Asterion Coen: whole*
[10:41] Imaze Rhiano: oooookay... so ... hypergrid next?
[10:41] Zha Ewry: Ah, or one big Z box, runing a huge pile of virtulized linux partitions
[10:41] Asterion Coen: a very big one then hehe
[10:42] Asterion Coen: (witch i hope is not bugged neither) :)
[10:42] Zha Ewry: Well, I need t hunt Diva down and have a chat
[10:42] Zha Ewry: and then, we should see if we can have her show here, or meet on an OpenSim, to discuss some of this
[10:43] Asterion Coen: (are opensim stable enough?) :)
[10:43] Zha Ewry: The other thing which the AD I'm doing it going to get is e pairwise X509 support
[10:43] Zha Ewry: and.. yes, they are
[10:43] Morgaine Dinova: They're stable enough for chatting sure
[10:43] Zha Ewry: For basic stuff, OpenSims can be pretty stable
[10:43] Zha Ewry: Actually, for under about 20 concurrent
[10:43] Zha Ewry: and not too mch building
[10:44] Asterion Coen: like we come to assist the meeting with our best suits and by some misteries become nude as a worm right in the meeting !
[10:44] Asterion Coen: (especialy when that's your turn to talk)
[10:44] Zha Ewry: chuckles osftly
[10:44] Imaze Rhiano: sounds fun
[10:44] Morgaine Dinova: Hey, that's not a bad strategy for ensuring that the speaker hold the attention ;-)
[10:44] Zha Ewry: As long as Saij isn't speaking
[10:45] Morgaine Dinova: Aw
[10:45] Morgaine Dinova: www
[10:45] Goldie Katsu: I thought you were supposed to imagine everyone else nude.
[10:45] Asterion Coen: lol
[10:45] Asterion Coen: sometime better isnot
[10:45] Morgaine Dinova: You mean your client actually shows people with their clothes on? How retro
[10:46] Asterion Coen: LOL
[10:46] Zha Ewry: well, I tend to wear system texctures
[10:46] Zha Ewry: so ctrl-alt-shift-9 doesn't mske me totally nakies
[10:46] Asterion Coen: :)
[10:47] Zha Ewry: /Does wonders to my framerate, tho
[10:47] Zha Ewry: I have seen at least one spin of the client, which takes off layers on aves
[10:47] Asterion Coen: as long as it's not linden bear system textures, that's ok :)
[10:48] Asterion Coen: never tried the ctrl+alt+shift+9
[10:48] Imaze Rhiano: what we want to ask from Zero tonight?
[10:48] Goldie Katsu: ah the bear necessities
[10:48] Asterion Coen: depending of the result, i wuill see if i wont wear a kilt
[10:49] Morgaine Dinova: Well if TheBlack Box is present, no doubt we'll corner Zero into talking about hierarchical object support in OGP, just to be sure he doesn't sideline it.
[10:49] Asterion Coen: hehe
[10:49] Zha Ewry: I have to say its ctrl-alt-shift 4 which tlls you how much ve's kill framerte
[10:49] Imaze Rhiano: " hierarchical object support"?
[10:50] Morgaine Dinova: Don't exist currently, Imaze
[10:50] Zha Ewry: Link sets done right?
[10:50] Zha Ewry: (which is how I tend to think of nexted object)
[10:50] Morgaine Dinova: Yeah, like a linkset at each level of a node tree
[10:50] Zha Ewry: *nested
[10:51] Asterion Coen: even fingers ?
[10:51] Morgaine Dinova: Basically a link set with additional links, one parent and N child links.
[10:52] Asterion Coen: independant fingers can be fine when u r in front of some anoying folks !
[10:53] Imaze Rhiano: triest to find OGP for linkset first...
[10:53] Morgaine Dinova: And most importantly of all, the parent and child links can't be closed off, ie. no perm setting to disallow hierarchical linking.
[10:54] Morgaine Dinova: Which is the biggest disaster of SL today, we can't build upon components built by others.
[10:54] Asterion Coen: morgain too bad.. how about doom addicted ?
[10:54] Morgaine Dinova: Didn't get that.
[10:54] Asterion Coen: the doom game
[10:55] Asterion Coen: the one where body can fly in all directions, and unlinked of crouse
[10:55] Morgaine Dinova: I know the game ... don't get the point :-)
[10:55] Asterion Coen: course
[10:55] Asterion Coen: uh oh, maybe i didnt get your sentence then :)
[10:55] Asterion Coen: (disallow hierarchical linking)
[10:55] Morgaine Dinova: Aye, don't think it's related.
[10:56] Zha Ewry: OK.
[10:56] Zha Ewry: I need to wander off to RL and chase down my malforumed URL
[10:56] Morgaine Dinova: kk, cya Zha, have fun
[10:56] Zha Ewry: I'm serously looking for conctet proposals
[10:56] Asterion Coen: have a nice safari then zha :)
[10:56] Morgaine Dinova: Proposals for what?
[10:56] Zha Ewry: On the SL wikis, or other places)
[10:56] Zha Ewry: for specific things we should think about in AD extenrions
[10:57] Morgaine Dinova: Aha
[10:57] Asterion Coen: a brain ?
[10:57] Asterion Coen: :)
[10:57] Morgaine Dinova: Which is the top of your wiki tree for your AD?
[10:57] Zha Ewry: Any place sane in the AWGroupies space?
[10:58] Morgaine Dinova: Suggest you provide the framework for it :-)
[10:58] Asterion Coen: the hair r the top of the av, morgain :) (at least for lot of them)
[10:58] Zha Ewry: I'll dig a bit
[10:58] Imaze Rhiano: Zero's meeting is starting in one hour?
[10:58] Asterion Coen: will be hard to link them all
[10:58] Zha Ewry: 2
[10:58] Zha Ewry: Zero's meeting is 1: SL
[10:58] Zha Ewry: So, two hours hence
[10:59] Imaze Rhiano: okay... I am going to have hour break then...
[10:59] Zha Ewry: which means I actually get a chance to get work done on Tuesdays
[10:59] Asterion Coen: :)
[10:59] Imaze Rhiano: what we did achieve in this meeting?
[10:59] Imaze Rhiano: we dicussed a lot about languages... weather...
[11:00] Asterion Coen: avatar links
[11:00] Morgaine Dinova: No Ast, that's not what we were discussing :-)
[11:00] Morgaine Dinova: I'll explain after Zha leaves :-)
[11:00] Asterion Coen: hairless folks ?
[11:00] Imaze Rhiano: naked avatars
[11:00] Asterion Coen: (also)
[11:01] Imaze Rhiano: and Zha needs to be contact with hypergrid creator
[11:01] Imaze Rhiano: did you hear that Zha?
[11:01] Morgaine Dinova: Zha: let us know if you create a basic top of your AD tree with a couple of headings, and we can start to knock ideas around.
[11:01] Imaze Rhiano: and get those ebil lawguys to allow you to publish your code...
[11:01] Morgaine Dinova: Oh yeah, that's an action point for Zha, hehe
[11:02] Imaze Rhiano: or someone knows hypergrid creator? who was she?
[11:02] Morgaine Dinova: Wow, she's got 3 action points! Poor Zha :P
[11:02] Asterion Coen: brevet and other copyright stuffs, i forgot that evolution in computer sciences :)
[11:02] Zha Ewry: I will try to have a wiki spot by Zero's OH hours
[11:03] Asterion Coen: now u need a server that hunt you code about copyrighted stuffs (whatever u copied it or not)