AW Groupies/Chat Logs/AWGroupies-2009-02-10

[2009/02/10 9:32] Mirt Tenk: hi SAi
[2009/02/10 9:32] Tinys Couple: Animator V1: Imaze Rhiano would like permission to animate you. Select [YES
[2009/02/10 9:32] Saijanai Kuhn: admires the invisible throng
[2009/02/10 9:32] Morgaine Dinova: 'Morning
[2009/02/10 9:33] Morgaine Dinova: Imaze!!!! Woohoo, double kittie act :-)))
[2009/02/10 9:34] Tinys Couple: Animator V1: Could not find sound 'Ballroom'.
[2009/02/10 9:34] Morgaine Dinova: 'Morning Sai. Mirt :-)
[2009/02/10 9:34] Morgaine Dinova: Anim not working I think Imaze
[2009/02/10 9:35] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[2009/02/10 9:35] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Rex!
[2009/02/10 9:35] Rex Cronon: hi
[2009/02/10 9:35] Morgaine Dinova: Aha, working now :-)
[2009/02/10 9:37] Rex Cronon: lol morgaine. u r a blue cat:)
[2009/02/10 9:37] Morgaine Dinova: Yep, I'm in kittie mode :-)
[2009/02/10 9:38] Rex Cronon: hello:)
[2009/02/10 9:38] Rex Cronon: no thank u. no animations:)
[2009/02/10 9:39] Catherine Pfeffer: bonsoir
[2009/02/10 9:39] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Catherine :-)
[2009/02/10 9:39] Catherine Pfeffer: hi morgaine ;-)
[2009/02/10 9:39] Rex Cronon: u might have some fun with this:)
[2009/02/10 9:39] Catherine Pfeffer: lol
[2009/02/10 9:40] Mirt Tenk: nice rat rex
[2009/02/10 9:40] Morgaine Dinova: licks Catherine's nice top and purrs
[2009/02/10 9:40] Rex Cronon: thanks:)
[2009/02/10 9:41] Rex Cronon: i use that for target practice:)
[2009/02/10 9:41] Morgaine Dinova: Damn I'm tired, 2 hours sleep. Going back to b ed after this
[2009/02/10 9:42] Morgaine Dinova: OK, Zha's turn Imaze :-)
[2009/02/10 9:42] Mirt Tenk: sounds like Zha might not make it
[2009/02/10 9:42] Saijanai Kuhn: zha's online
[2009/02/10 9:42] [[User:emoteur [scriptemoteur]|emoteur [scriptemoteur]]]: Script run-time error
[2009/02/10 9:42] [[User:emoteur [scriptemoteur]|emoteur [scriptemoteur]]]: Stack-Heap Collision
[2009/02/10 9:42] Morgaine Dinova: 'Morning Zha!
[2009/02/10 9:42] Mirt Tenk: hi Zha
[2009/02/10 9:43] Rex Cronon: zha your scripts r borked:)
[2009/02/10 9:43] Zha Ewry: Please make sure you have the latest anti virus software installed and set to "purell"
[2009/02/10 9:43] Rex Cronon: hi
[2009/02/10 9:43] Rex Cronon: u should put some fishes in the lake. 4 the cats:)
[2009/02/10 9:43] A group: member named Joel Savard gave you Metanomics Live Chat Follow-Up 2009-02-10.
[2009/02/10 9:44] Mirt Tenk: too late
[2009/02/10 9:44] Zha Ewry: I'm running at about 25% of normal power
[2009/02/10 9:44] Mirt Tenk: for purell
[2009/02/10 9:44] Mirt Tenk: got the zpak last nigth
[2009/02/10 9:44] Zha Ewry: And clearly need a "sneeze" anim in my AO
[2009/02/10 9:44] Morgaine Dinova: notes the absence of fish and frowns at Zha
[2009/02/10 9:44] Rex Cronon: what is purell?
[2009/02/10 9:45] Mirt Tenk: RL hand sterilizing gel
[2009/02/10 9:45] Rex Cronon: so, r u supposed to apply that to your hard drive:)
[2009/02/10 9:45] Saijanai Kuhn: ponders the power of ginger
[2009/02/10 9:45] Saijanai Kuhn: the spice, not the spice girl
[2009/02/10 9:45] Zha Ewry: rezes some cat food
[2009/02/10 9:46] Mirt Tenk: btw, did you know computer keyboards transmit huge #'s of viruses if used by multiple people? worse than doorknobs, etc
[2009/02/10 9:46] Morgaine Dinova: Fishies!
[2009/02/10 9:46] Saijanai Kuhn: smooth plastic is good for that
[2009/02/10 9:46] Zha Ewry: My inveotry is scary
[2009/02/10 9:46] Saijanai Kuhn: so's ur typing
[2009/02/10 9:46] Zha Ewry: I'm pretty sure I've got a holy grail or two in here too
[2009/02/10 9:47] Morgaine Dinova: If I had an inveotry, it would be scarier than yours!
[2009/02/10 9:47] Mirt Tenk: surely that could cure you
[2009/02/10 9:47] Zha Ewry: sneezes and sighs
[2009/02/10 9:47] Saijanai Kuhn: Does it come with 8 score lovely blonds and bruenettes?
[2009/02/10 9:47] Zha Ewry: Of course it does, this is lake SLBegone
[2009/02/10 9:48] Morgaine Dinova: Woohoo, more blueness!
[2009/02/10 9:49] Zha Ewry: So... I'm not planning on staying too long, as I'm prety de-foused form the RL viral replicators, but I owuld like to talk about a couple of things
[2009/02/10 9:49] Morgaine Dinova: kk
[2009/02/10 9:49] Zha Ewry: ONe.. I asume... everyone has pretty well seen the MMOX stuff
[2009/02/10 9:49] Morgaine Dinova: What's MMOX?
[2009/02/10 9:49] Infinity Linden: lol
[2009/02/10 9:49] Rex Cronon: you have a virus? for real? i mean your computer?
[2009/02/10 9:49] Pixel Gausman: lol
[2009/02/10 9:49] Morgaine Dinova: Infinity!
[2009/02/10 9:50] Infinity Linden: yeah. i sneak up sometimes
[2009/02/10 9:50] Saijanai Kuhn: yo Opt-5
[2009/02/10 9:50] Zha Ewry: No, human replicator
[2009/02/10 9:50] Infinity Linden: lol
[2009/02/10 9:50] Zha Ewry: Much harder to keep the human anti-irus software updated
[2009/02/10 9:51] Morgaine Dinova: Easier to ignoire the viruses and just buy another 8 lives Zha
[2009/02/10 9:51] Zha Ewry: sighs
[2009/02/10 9:51] Zha Ewry: That only woks when you don' thvae to live the first one as well
[2009/02/10 9:51] Pixel Gausman: any idea how large the MMOX list is yet? subscribers?
[2009/02/10 9:51] Zha Ewry: Infinity? I kinow it's over 20
[2009/02/10 9:52] Infinity Linden: umm... hmm... i think it's over 50 now
[2009/02/10 9:52] Morgaine Dinova: Must be small, we're getting so few posts
[2009/02/10 9:52] Pixel Gausman: i've been spreading the word
[2009/02/10 9:52] Zha Ewry: Mostly lurkers then
[2009/02/10 9:52] Infinity Linden: we've got a query into the IETF as to whether group email membership is public or private
[2009/02/10 9:53] Infinity Linden: but the thing to remember, we haven't done an official call for participation yet
[2009/02/10 9:53] Morgaine Dinova: I haven't checked overnight, lemme see if any comments on latest draft
[2009/02/10 9:53] Zha Ewry: I've also been gently asked, if IETF participatoin requires a RL name
[2009/02/10 9:53] Infinity Linden: and MMOX is about more than just SL / OpenSim
[2009/02/10 9:54] Infinity Linden: yeah... for the peeps who participate in the AWG pseudonymously... there may be benefits to subscribing under your real name
[2009/02/10 9:54] Jonit Ivory: Hello all :)
[2009/02/10 9:54] Zha Ewry: This was actually a deeper query than that.. which is.. do the rules require a RL name and affiliatoin disclosure
[2009/02/10 9:54] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Jonit!
[2009/02/10 9:54] Rex Cronon: i may win the lottory also:)
[2009/02/10 9:54] Rex Cronon: hi
[2009/02/10 9:55] Pixel Gausman: Zha: interesting point
[2009/02/10 9:55] Infinity Linden: Dick Gabriel had a history of creating alts in newsgroups and then having heated (but reasoned) debates with them
[2009/02/10 9:55] Pixel Gausman: with IP goo, dunno
[2009/02/10 9:55] Zha Ewry: It epseically becomes cogent for voting, and consensus forming
[2009/02/10 9:55] Saijanai Kuhn: wasn't that what the brother and sister di in ENder's Game?
[2009/02/10 9:55] Morgaine Dinova: Well I'm Morgaine of the Dinova Foundation, and I wish to disclose that I like fish.
[2009/02/10 9:56] Jonit Ivory: hey hey Imaze
[2009/02/10 9:56] Mirt Tenk: Dick Gabriel had a lot of free time
[2009/02/10 9:56] Zha Ewry: Anyway.. that's somehting it would be clever to have an actual IETF answer on..
[2009/02/10 9:57] Jonit Ivory: you cheered me up ty, been a long day of PHP
[2009/02/10 9:57] Infinity Linden: surprisingly... he did an aweful lot of stuff... wrote a lot of very good papers on software development, was an amateur musican, wrote a bunch of lisp code, and had time to argue with himself
[2009/02/10 9:57] Zha Ewry: So... two more bits of administrivia..
[2009/02/10 9:57] Saijanai Kuhn: I know that the IETF says that people are always present as individuals, not as representatives of a compnay
[2009/02/10 9:57] Tray Guisse: hehe
[2009/02/10 9:57] Tray Guisse: hihi
[2009/02/10 9:58] Morgaine Dinova: Oh, I didn't know that Sai. It's a good rule.
[2009/02/10 9:58] Infinity Linden: right.. but IPR disclosures REQUIRE both individual and corporate disclosure
[2009/02/10 9:58] Infinity Linden: but
[2009/02/10 9:58] Zha Ewry: I'm planning on keeping this time slot as long as there is interest.. I'm looking to alternate with a meeting on one of the OpenSim grids sometime shortly, but I need to work out the logistics on that, so look for that info shortly
[2009/02/10 9:58] Infinity Linden: you don't need to file an IPR disclosure unless you have some IPR to disclose
[2009/02/10 9:58] Infinity Linden: so
[2009/02/10 9:59] Infinity Linden: the question is... is it copasetic for individuals to participate pseudonymously
[2009/02/10 9:59] Morgaine Dinova: What's that word?
[2009/02/10 9:59] Saijanai Kuhn: mispell I think but maybenot
[2009/02/10 9:59] Infinity Linden: which word?
[2009/02/10 9:59] Zha Ewry: /copacetic
[2009/02/10 9:59] Zha Ewry: meaning OK
[2009/02/10 9:59] Pixel Gausman: Infinity: is the rule RAND for stuff you dont disclose?
[2009/02/10 9:59] Infinity Linden: it's copacetic
[2009/02/10 10:00] Jonit Ivory: copacetic or copasetic (kp-stk)
adj.
Very satisfactory or acceptable; fine
[2009/02/10 10:00] Saijanai Kuhn: Copasetic is an unusual English language word in that it is one of the few words of seemingly unknown origin that is not considered slang in contemporary usage.
[2009/02/10 10:00] Zha Ewry: sigs (well, OK, is a very weak translatoin, copacetic, comes much closer to cool, happy, and harmonious than OK" )
[2009/02/10 10:00] Infinity Linden: lol. we're all looking at the wikipedia
[2009/02/10 10:00] Saijanai Kuhn: origins apear to be conversations with astronauts
[2009/02/10 10:00] Morgaine Dinova: Blimey, not rare to find a word I don't know, but rare to not find one I've never even heard before
[2009/02/10 10:00] Jonit Ivory: I'm English
[2009/02/10 10:00] Pixel Gausman: Infinity: is the rule RAND for stuff you dont disclose?
[2009/02/10 10:00] Jonit Ivory: I believe SL promotes anonimity
[2009/02/10 10:01] Infinity Linden: ack. getting called away. will try to make it back in a few
[2009/02/10 10:01] Infinity Linden: RAND?
[2009/02/10 10:01] Infinity Linden: but Jonit... MMOX != SL
[2009/02/10 10:01] Pixel Gausman: ok. i'll ask elsewhere
[2009/02/10 10:01] Zha Ewry: Reasonable and Non Discrimenatory
[2009/02/10 10:01] Infinity Linden: ah ah
[2009/02/10 10:01] Jonit Ivory: yes but it's a culture thing
[2009/02/10 10:01] Infinity Linden: right
[2009/02/10 10:01] Zha Ewry: IPR rules
[2009/02/10 10:01] Pixel Gausman: sorry, went into lawyer decoder ring mode
[2009/02/10 10:01] Zha Ewry: RAND discsloures are at the affiliation level
[2009/02/10 10:01] Infinity Linden: in theory... we all have to take off our "corporate affiliation" badges when we make standards
[2009/02/10 10:02] Zha Ewry: Right, but we put them back on when the IPR happens
[2009/02/10 10:02] Morgaine Dinova: LOL
[2009/02/10 10:02] Infinity Linden: (thus... i'm advocating for a 64 bit wide int in LLSD internally)
[2009/02/10 10:02] Zha Ewry: One gets a bit dizy
[2009/02/10 10:02] Infinity Linden: yeah
[2009/02/10 10:03] Infinity Linden: i think the idea was that the IETF wants to maintain it's reputation, so unlike other standards bodies we won't name, they don't just rubber stamp proposals
[2009/02/10 10:03] Zha Ewry: the IETF expectatoin is we'll all act as intelligent, professoinals, seperate from our corporate afiliatoin
[2009/02/10 10:03] Morgaine Dinova: Infinity: I like that. Makes very little sense to have 32-bit ints in a high-level interface.
[2009/02/10 10:03] Infinity Linden: well.. considering that there's resistance to add LLSD as a standards track RFC, I don't see that there's any debate
[2009/02/10 10:03] Infinity Linden: LLSD (if an informational RFC) will have no 64 bit wide int
[2009/02/10 10:04] Infinity Linden: and with that... i have to go
[2009/02/10 10:04] Saijanai Kuhn: we had a nice late night/early morning discussion about LLSD
[2009/02/10 10:04] Mirt Tenk: tc
[2009/02/10 10:04] Rex Cronon: bye inifinity
[2009/02/10 10:04] Catherine Pfeffer: ...
[2009/02/10 10:04] Saijanai Kuhn: laters Infinity
[2009/02/10 10:05] Zha Ewry: So. on logistics.. we have offers to do some form of RL/SL bridge for the actual BOF
[2009/02/10 10:05] Morgaine Dinova: Fair enough. Although I had no qualms about LLSD as long as we weren't held back by its definition inside LL.
[2009/02/10 10:05] Catherine Pfeffer: if informational, then LLSD remains SL stuff, not really a standard. That's fine too.
[2009/02/10 10:05] Zha Ewry: Probably something akin to the Metanomics chat bridge
[2009/02/10 10:05] Saijanai Kuhn: possibly multi-region if there's enough attendance
[2009/02/10 10:06] Morgaine Dinova: And Rob seemed to indicate that there would be no trouble redefining LLSD if we needed to. So I'm not pressing for LLSD to disappear, although I would support replacing "LL" by OG or VW or something generic.
[2009/02/10 10:06] Saijanai Kuhn: Bjorlyn and Bevan are both interested in the idea and think Beyers will be as well
[2009/02/10 10:06] Jonit Ivory: is someone actually going to RFC LLSD with IETF?
[2009/02/10 10:06] Zha Ewry: With voice likely, and maybe video
[2009/02/10 10:06] Morgaine Dinova: LL is yes, it's been made an MMOX milestone
[2009/02/10 10:07] Zha Ewry: That is on the table
[2009/02/10 10:07] Jonit Ivory: interesting
[2009/02/10 10:07] Jonit Ivory: who's driving it? just Zero at LL or are you Zha in on it?
[2009/02/10 10:07] Morgaine Dinova: I removed the milestone about simulators last night from the draft, since worlds may not have a simulator like LL uses. Lemme see if I got any comments.
[2009/02/10 10:07] Catherine Pfeffer: If it's not on the track for a RFC, then my arguments about LLSD having competitors in the same niche don't stand.
[2009/02/10 10:08] Zha Ewry: I'm supportive of getting *something* about LLSD or similar on the IETF table
[2009/02/10 10:09] Jonit Ivory: good
[2009/02/10 10:09] Catherine Pfeffer: zha : is an "informational" ietf document "something" ?
[2009/02/10 10:09] Jonit Ivory: I think it needs it for maturity
[2009/02/10 10:09] Zha Ewry: I personaly find informative weak
[2009/02/10 10:09] Pixel Gausman: I'd like to get input from the OpenSim community on LLSD. they've worked with it, and definitely have some views.
[2009/02/10 10:09] Zha Ewry: But, I haven't given it a deep thought
[2009/02/10 10:09] Catherine Pfeffer: you've heard, there's reluctance from IETF tto make a RFC of it
[2009/02/10 10:09] Zha Ewry: and in my current viral state, wouldn't trust the eep thought
[2009/02/10 10:10] Zha Ewry: sighs
[2009/02/10 10:10] Morgaine Dinova: Well it's informative published as an RFC by LL. But in making it part of the MMOX protocol, it will become normative.
[2009/02/10 10:10] Jonit Ivory: what do IETF want? more specifics?
[2009/02/10 10:10] Pixel Gausman: Jonit: the IETF has it's first meeting on MMOX in march.
[2009/02/10 10:10] Zha Ewry: Well, the world *needs* more XMLish serializatoins formats, becuase, we only have a few hundred at the moment
[2009/02/10 10:10] Catherine Pfeffer: infinity did not give the reasons for this reluctance
[2009/02/10 10:10] Morgaine Dinova: Hahahaha Zha
[2009/02/10 10:11] Zha Ewry: I also, have to say, LL in the name is not helpful
[2009/02/10 10:11] Jonit Ivory: ty Catherine
[2009/02/10 10:11] Zha Ewry: WHich is both silly, and relevent
[2009/02/10 10:11] Catherine Pfeffer: yes Zha, that does not help
[2009/02/10 10:11] Pixel Gausman: Zha: yeah, that was a D'oh! moment
[2009/02/10 10:12] Saijanai Kuhn: Well the acronym has a cute pronuciation is apparently the rationale
[2009/02/10 10:12] Zha Ewry: The OpenSIm community certainly has opinions
[2009/02/10 10:12] Zha Ewry: I've had some chats with people, such as Teravus, but to be honest, its an XML based simple mapping, I can't get too worked up about it
[2009/02/10 10:13] Zha Ewry: It isn't deeply efficient, but nothing tha pays the angle bracket tax is
[2009/02/10 10:13] Zha Ewry: It isn't very complex and it works
[2009/02/10 10:13] Jonit Ivory: LL are attemting to bed teh IETF to leave "open" solutions in the cold?
[2009/02/10 10:13] Rex Cronon: wow. llsd isn't very complex:)
[2009/02/10 10:14] Zha Ewry: Its a PITA to parse in a few spots, but *everything* that pays the anglle bracket tax isn't wonderful to parse
[2009/02/10 10:14] Saijanai Kuhn: so far no-one has pointed to a simpler solution
[2009/02/10 10:14] Pixel Gausman: Zha: i think it's important that the OpenSim devs get interested and involved in the standard. The LLSD thing seems to be a sticky point for them
[2009/02/10 10:14] Zha Ewry: I totally agree
[2009/02/10 10:14] Catherine Pfeffer: where is teravus ? ;-)
[2009/02/10 10:14] Zha Ewry: Ideally, in the form of "Here's how it oculd be done better"
[2009/02/10 10:14] Morgaine Dinova: Well we tried to come up with a less complex alternative to LLSD+LLIDL last night from among the existing standards, and we couldn't. They're all more complex. So I think we have a reasonable starting candidate.
[2009/02/10 10:15] Catherine Pfeffer: yes, simplicity is one of its major forces
[2009/02/10 10:15] Zha Ewry: At the XML+LLSD serializatoin level, how complex is LLSD?
[2009/02/10 10:15] Imaze Rhiano: what about other parts: messages and application level objects?
[2009/02/10 10:15] Catherine Pfeffer: strengths
[2009/02/10 10:15] Zha Ewry: Not terribly to my eye
[2009/02/10 10:15] Morgaine Dinova: Pixel: is LLSD a sticking point for them if it's renamed?
[2009/02/10 10:16] Catherine Pfeffer: i would qualify it as ©straightforward"
[2009/02/10 10:16] Pixel Gausman: Morgaine: i dunno. i cant articulate their issues with it very well, i just know they are there, and very real
[2009/02/10 10:16] Catherine Pfeffer: it would be good to have feedback, because we're only speculating
[2009/02/10 10:17] Morgaine Dinova: Well so far everyone's contributions to MMOX have been reasoned, don't think anyone's tried to push a "Get rid of it coz I don't like it" through.
[2009/02/10 10:17] Saijanai Kuhn: it lacks some things, I believe. Zero's indicated he's aware that "binary blobs" aren't handled properly by LLIDL
[2009/02/10 10:17] Pixel Gausman: so they dont think enough of MMOX or AWG to be here articulating that... so that tells us something
[2009/02/10 10:18] Saijanai Kuhn: jhurliman: and what better place to talk about an open virtual world architecture than a walled garden world
[2009/02/10 10:18] Saijanai Kuhn: response to announcement of groupies meeting on MMOX
[2009/02/10 10:18] Dahlia Trimble: Hi :)
[2009/02/10 10:18] Zha Ewry: Sigh.
[2009/02/10 10:18] Rex Cronon: hi
[2009/02/10 10:18] Catherine Pfeffer: Dahlia ;-)
[2009/02/10 10:19] Zha Ewry: Hello Dahlia
[2009/02/10 10:19] Dahlia Trimble: lol @ the kitties
[2009/02/10 10:19] Zha Ewry: We can hold an hour in IRC, or an openSim grid
[2009/02/10 10:19] Pixel Gausman: regardless, the OpenSim's communities views are important, i think
[2009/02/10 10:19] Saijanai Kuhn: I mentioned that. No response
[2009/02/10 10:19] Zha Ewry: Totally agree
[2009/02/10 10:19] Zha Ewry: The chalange, is that a bunch of the OpenSIm community view standards as "Only going to slow down coding"
[2009/02/10 10:20] Zha Ewry: which of course, isn't entirely wrong
[2009/02/10 10:20] Pixel Gausman: interop between OpenSim and SL seems like it would be easier than SL and any other platform.
[2009/02/10 10:20] Morgaine Dinova: Opensim is mega-important to MMOX as it's the only foil to SL we have currently.
[2009/02/10 10:20] Pixel Gausman: Morgaine: so how do we convince THEM that they need to spend time/resource on MMOX?
[2009/02/10 10:21] Pixel Gausman: OpenSim devs are quietly coding away
[2009/02/10 10:21] Morgaine Dinova: I think they've been convinced, else they wouldn't have appeared in MMOX. John's appeared twice now and had very strong (nearly violent) comments
[2009/02/10 10:21] Pixel Gausman: not involved
[2009/02/10 10:21] Zha Ewry: One or two
[2009/02/10 10:22] Zha Ewry: Adam, jhurliman, teravus have all nosed in
[2009/02/10 10:22] Pixel Gausman: i dont see the level of involvement from that community that i think MMOX needs
[2009/02/10 10:22] Zha Ewry: None are what I'd describe as engaged
[2009/02/10 10:22] Saijanai Kuhn: nor happy, either
[2009/02/10 10:22] Morgaine Dinova: True
[2009/02/10 10:23] Dahlia Trimble: none are really sponsored :/
[2009/02/10 10:23] Zha Ewry: Partly, I think, as we actually start doing concrete stuff, we may get thier attention
[2009/02/10 10:23] Zha Ewry: But. I'm also thinking we need to do outreach
[2009/02/10 10:23] Pixel Gausman: Dahlia: good pt.
[2009/02/10 10:23] Zha Ewry: get out on OpenSIm grids for meetings
[2009/02/10 10:23] Pixel Gausman: Zha: outreach, definitely
[2009/02/10 10:23] Zha Ewry: and have very concrete things to focus on
[2009/02/10 10:24] Zha Ewry: The best feedback, has been on things like LLSD
[2009/02/10 10:24] Zha Ewry: where there are clear things people care about
[2009/02/10 10:24] Zha Ewry: (Mind you, it's all been *negative* feedback)
[2009/02/10 10:25] Zha Ewry: I'm not deeply excited by feedback in the form of "X is bad" without a "Y would be better"
[2009/02/10 10:25] Dahlia Trimble: it would be helpful to have the LL‚ protocols in some form of standard rather than having to "reverse engineer" them
[2009/02/10 10:25] Pixel Gausman: we cant force them to give feedback, they have to see value in what is being done in MMOX
[2009/02/10 10:25] Morgaine Dinova: Zha: in our IM discussions over the last 48h, I've been coming around to knocking up noddy test worlds that implement the MMOX protocols simplistically (maybe using PyOGP to poke them). That's the kind of practical thing that the Opensim might relate to better, being nose-ground coding.
[2009/02/10 10:25] blotto Epsilon: is LL going to provide a mmox test grid that opensim devs can do interop experiments with? seem that would get their attention.
[2009/02/10 10:26] Zha Ewry: Not clear
[2009/02/10 10:26] Pixel Gausman: blotto: prolly, it would make sense
[2009/02/10 10:26] Zha Ewry: I'm planning on gettiing proposals out in code
[2009/02/10 10:26] Dahlia Trimble: different than agni?
[2009/02/10 10:26] Zha Ewry: and Teravus is supportive of getting everytying we spec in the IETF out
[2009/02/10 10:26] Pixel Gausman: diff than agni
[2009/02/10 10:26] Dahlia Trimble: I mean aditi
[2009/02/10 10:26] Pixel Gausman: oh, prolly aditi again
[2009/02/10 10:26] Morgaine Dinova: blotto -- I'm not sure if that would be a good thing or a bad one. Relations are already slightly strained in trying to make things "VW" rather then "SL"
[2009/02/10 10:26] Pixel Gausman: but i know nuthing
[2009/02/10 10:26] Rex Cronon: i don't think that ietf is going to accept only code proposals:)
[2009/02/10 10:27] Morgaine Dinova: Yeah, Aditi is likely to go MMOX
[2009/02/10 10:27] Saijanai Kuhn: well, once there's an independent AD, we can bypass aditi and gridnauts when we want
[2009/02/10 10:27] Jonit Ivory: LL are so monopolistic, it is not at all helpful
[2009/02/10 10:27] Pixel Gausman: coughs
[2009/02/10 10:27] blotto Epsilon: well, but part of what we care about is interop with SL
[2009/02/10 10:27] Morgaine Dinova: Zha, any progress with your lawyers on AD?
[2009/02/10 10:27] Zha Ewry: eyes Pixel
[2009/02/10 10:27] Pixel Gausman: coughs
[2009/02/10 10:27] Zha Ewry: Lawyers and more complete code
[2009/02/10 10:27] Pixel Gausman: gets out the cattle prod and charges it
[2009/02/10 10:28] Zha Ewry: We'll push stuff out when we can, no formal comittments
[2009/02/10 10:28] Morgaine Dinova: Excellent! ETA?
[2009/02/10 10:28] Dahlia Trimble: pats Pixel on the back
[2009/02/10 10:28] Zha Ewry: sneeszes and sighs
[2009/02/10 10:28] Object: Touched.:
[2009/02/10 10:28] [[User:Object: <-0.79988,|Object: <-0.79988,]]: 0.60014, 0.00571>
[2009/02/10 10:28] Pixel Gausman: Dahlia: well, i'm going after Zha with the zapper
[2009/02/10 10:28] Dahlia Trimble: o.O
[2009/02/10 10:28] Pixel Gausman: :)
[2009/02/10 10:29] Dahlia Trimble: thought this was a semi-public meeting ;)
[2009/02/10 10:29] Zha Ewry: it is
[2009/02/10 10:29] Morgaine Dinova: Yeah, I'm not buying Zha's excuses re the lawyers too much ... even though I like blaming lawyers myself :-)
[2009/02/10 10:29] Zha Ewry: Just some back channel pushing happening
[2009/02/10 10:29] Pixel Gausman: Morgaine: she works for IBM. we have lots-o-lawyers. trust me.
[2009/02/10 10:29] Saijanai Kuhn: zha will you need to go through this every timeyou write code, or just once per business cycle or...?
[2009/02/10 10:30] Zha Ewry: Depends in ways which would take a lifetime to explain
[2009/02/10 10:30] Morgaine Dinova: Zha: push on those lawyers. Legal is meant to be working for you, and you need the AD release NOW!
[2009/02/10 10:30] Morgaine Dinova: Yeah I know Pixel :-)
[2009/02/10 10:30] Zha Ewry: In general, tho, when we have a project public, we can incrementally push more stuff out
[2009/02/10 10:30] Zha Ewry: the hard thing, is making sure we can do the first step
[2009/02/10 10:31] Zha Ewry: and that's legal, coordinatoin, and comfort
[2009/02/10 10:31] Mirt Tenk: sure
[2009/02/10 10:31] Morgaine Dinova: This particular case isn't a hard one, it's prototype code, no legal liability. Just be sure you've not included any IBM secrets and you're done
[2009/02/10 10:31] Zha Ewry: And we're comfortable with it
[2009/02/10 10:31] Pixel Gausman: snickers at Morgaine
[2009/02/10 10:32] Zha Ewry: is pretty sure she hasn't encoded any deep secrets in the code
[2009/02/10 10:32] Saijanai Kuhn: marvels at meeting a bigger idealist than himself
[2009/02/10 10:32] Catherine Pfeffer: lol
[2009/02/10 10:32] Morgaine Dinova: Pixel: no, don't let the lawyers tell you "It's more complicated than that" --- they always will :-)
[2009/02/10 10:32] Zha Ewry: It would be nice if it didn't crash randomly when three people use the path in parellel
[2009/02/10 10:32] Pixel Gausman: Zha: yeah.
[2009/02/10 10:32] Pixel Gausman: for instance!
[2009/02/10 10:32] Zha Ewry: I found one of those
[2009/02/10 10:33] Zha Ewry: And when I shake this persistent cold, I'm going to push a new copy out which fixes that and actually keeps UUIDs of agents persistent within a single running of it
[2009/02/10 10:33] Morgaine Dinova: Wb Infi :-)
[2009/02/10 10:33] Jonit Ivory: wb Infinity
[2009/02/10 10:33] Rex Cronon: wb
[2009/02/10 10:33] Zha Ewry: WB very white infinite one
[2009/02/10 10:33] Infinity Linden: howdy
[2009/02/10 10:33] Zha Ewry: Isn't that Hola?
[2009/02/10 10:33] Saijanai Kuhn: hilow
[2009/02/10 10:33] Zha Ewry: is pretty sure "Hola" is the start of the Infinity Linden handshake
[2009/02/10 10:33] Infinity Linden: nah... i'm dressed in a toga... so i'm speaking with a greek accent
[2009/02/10 10:34] Infinity Linden: "howdy y'all"
[2009/02/10 10:34] Morgaine Dinova: Hehe
[2009/02/10 10:34] Saijanai Kuhn: y'o
[2009/02/10 10:34] Rex Cronon: howdy:)
[2009/02/10 10:34] Zha Ewry: So, We'll try meeting on OpenSIm space, to see if that gets any OpenSIm people to show, and If people want to try an all IRC discussoin, I'm game for that too
[2009/02/10 10:34] Morgaine Dinova: kk
[2009/02/10 10:35] Catherine Pfeffer: on OSgrid ?
[2009/02/10 10:35] Pixel Gausman: Zha: get some rest.... and git me some code.
[2009/02/10 10:35] Zha Ewry: OS Grid is the obvious candidate. I'll chat with Charliek K, and see if he's up for it
[2009/02/10 10:35] Jonit Ivory: in thatorder...
[2009/02/10 10:35] Saijanai Kuhn: OPenSim uses their wright plaza IRC bot. We should whip something up like that for your sim, Zha, at least for Groupies time
[2009/02/10 10:35] Morgaine Dinova: Is it possible to the Opensim meeting set up as Office Hours so that we see it in the OH HUD?
[2009/02/10 10:35] Morgaine Dinova: get*
[2009/02/10 10:35] Zha Ewry: I don't see why not
[2009/02/10 10:35] Saijanai Kuhn: well, talk to CC about that morgaine
[2009/02/10 10:35] Jonit Ivory: this may not work..
[2009/02/10 10:36] Tinys Couple: Animator V1: Could not find sound 'Ballroom'.
[2009/02/10 10:36] Tray Guisse: got to poof and help a friend Well Met all
[2009/02/10 10:36] Dahlia Trimble: there is an opensim office hour already at 11 PST today
[2009/02/10 10:36] Jonit Ivory: ok Imaze it failed
[2009/02/10 10:36] Object: Touched.:
[2009/02/10 10:36] [[User:Object: <-0.65202,|Object: <-0.65202,]]: 0.75233, -0.09418>
[2009/02/10 10:36] Morgaine Dinova: Cya Tray
[2009/02/10 10:36] Dahlia Trimble: unfortunately I wont be able to attend :(
[2009/02/10 10:36] Saijanai Kuhn: CC added groupies to the HUD so he/she can likely add OpenSim as well
[2009/02/10 10:36] Zha Ewry: Yeah, I'll probbly stop by to listen at least
[2009/02/10 10:37] Morgaine Dinova: hasn't had a coffee and has no index for CC
[2009/02/10 10:37] Morgaine Dinova: Charlie Chaplin?
[2009/02/10 10:37] Infinity Linden: Creative Commons?
[2009/02/10 10:37] Zha Ewry: Closed Captioning?
[2009/02/10 10:37] Morgaine Dinova: continues full table scan
[2009/02/10 10:37] Infinity Linden: Coviet Cocialist?
[2009/02/10 10:37] Saijanai Kuhn: GG anyway Gallan Glenelg
[2009/02/10 10:38] Morgaine Dinova: Aha! GG :-)
[2009/02/10 10:38] Saijanai Kuhn: I kept on typing CG and eventually got it totally wrong with CC isntead of GG
[2009/02/10 10:38] Zha Ewry: OK
[2009/02/10 10:38] Morgaine Dinova: Hehe
[2009/02/10 10:38] Zha Ewry: any other topics?
[2009/02/10 10:39] Morgaine Dinova: Zha, any ETA on when AD will become available, even if fuzzy ETA?
[2009/02/10 10:39] Imaze Rhiano: what about other parts; messages and application level objects?
[2009/02/10 10:39] Zha Ewry: As soon as Pixel is happy, and I'm sure I don't make layers unhappy
[2009/02/10 10:39] Morgaine Dinova: If still with lawyers, here's a request: please ask them for an ETA on their OK
[2009/02/10 10:40] Zha Ewry: Pixels been testing against it and isn't thrilled with the stability yet
[2009/02/10 10:40] Saijanai Kuhn: "that information will cost you...."
[2009/02/10 10:40] Morgaine Dinova: We can cope with flakey code.
[2009/02/10 10:40] Zha Ewry: me mutters something about "stack traces are *so* much fun"
[2009/02/10 10:40] Zha Ewry: Oh, I know
[2009/02/10 10:40] Saijanai Kuhn: to quote the OUtsiders when asked if there's anything they won't sell
[2009/02/10 10:40] puppy: Warning......: don't touch the bone!
[2009/02/10 10:40] Infinity Linden: and also... this is gonna be open sourced, right?
[2009/02/10 10:40] puppy: Hey,: it's MY bone!
[2009/02/10 10:41] puppy: Hey,: it's MY bone!
[2009/02/10 10:41] Saijanai Kuhn: so beware of getting a ETA for the ETA that slows down the original ETA
[2009/02/10 10:41] puppy: Hey,: it's MY bone!
[2009/02/10 10:41] Zha Ewry: The Agent D work?
[2009/02/10 10:41] Infinity Linden: under a real FLOSS license, right?
[2009/02/10 10:41] Infinity Linden: yup
[2009/02/10 10:41] Zha Ewry: nods
[2009/02/10 10:41] Infinity Linden: kk
[2009/02/10 10:41] Zha Ewry: I esxpect to release it as we did the first OGP patch
[2009/02/10 10:41] Zha Ewry: on Gridfordge
[2009/02/10 10:41] Infinity Linden: cool
[2009/02/10 10:41] Zha Ewry: Its easier then the OGP patch
[2009/02/10 10:41] Zha Ewry: as its purely additive
[2009/02/10 10:42] Mirt Tenk: read "purely addictive"
[2009/02/10 10:42] Infinity Linden: cause i'm probably gonna pick up the test cases i abandoned for PyOGP
[2009/02/10 10:42] Morgaine Dinova: I'm concerned at not getting any kind of fuzzy ETA yet. 1 week, 1 month, 1 year?
[2009/02/10 10:42] Zha Ewry: Weeks, Morgaine
[2009/02/10 10:42] Infinity Linden: and try to drive "general agreement" for how LLSD should be tested
[2009/02/10 10:42] Infinity Linden: ditto for OGP auth
[2009/02/10 10:42] Zha Ewry: Mostly needs a few days of focused coding
[2009/02/10 10:43] Zha Ewry: I got totally pulled out to chase soemthing else for 10 days
[2009/02/10 10:43] Imaze Rhiano: I should have been lawyer
[2009/02/10 10:43] Morgaine Dinova: Not worried about flakes. Will it take weeks of legal work still?
[2009/02/10 10:43] Zha Ewry: No
[2009/02/10 10:43] Morgaine Dinova: Phew
[2009/02/10 10:43] Zha Ewry: I'm pretty sure, at this point, it's when Pixel and I say "Ok, we're good to go"
[2009/02/10 10:43] Morgaine Dinova: I want us to have used it extensively before BoF time, so we have a good idea of problem areas for protocol.
[2009/02/10 10:43] Zha Ewry: As much as I'm every sure about anything
[2009/02/10 10:44] Morgaine Dinova: Time is fairly right
[2009/02/10 10:44] Morgaine Dinova: tight*
[2009/02/10 10:45] Morgaine Dinova: Ohh, nice puppy :-)
[2009/02/10 10:45] Zha Ewry: indeed
[2009/02/10 10:45] Jonit Ivory: grazie
[2009/02/10 10:45] Zha Ewry: ok, I'm going to break for a little bit, and try and make it to OSGrid in 15 mnutes
[2009/02/10 10:45] Zha Ewry: sneesez and looks for more hot tea
[2009/02/10 10:45] Mirt Tenk: tc zha, vitamin C
[2009/02/10 10:45] Dahlia Trimble: has to go too, rl day today ;)
[2009/02/10 10:46] Zha Ewry: umm. Kindly, clean up most of th cat food?
[2009/02/10 10:46] Mirt Tenk: tc dahlia
[2009/02/10 10:46] Dahlia Trimble: bye all :)
[2009/02/10 10:46] Rex Cronon: bye everybody
[2009/02/10 10:46] Zha Ewry: Or risk it being rteurned to you
[2009/02/10 10:46] Jonit Ivory: thank you Zha
[2009/02/10 10:46] Saijanai Kuhn: watch out for the hair balls
[2009/02/10 10:46] Dahlia Trimble: waves to the kitties
[2009/02/10 10:46] Rex Cronon: i don't mind haveing it returned:)
[2009/02/10 10:46] Infinity Linden: good thing i don't leave riemann residues
[2009/02/10 10:46] Morgaine Dinova: I'll try to see you there Zha
[2009/02/10 10:47] Morgaine Dinova: Will sleep after
[2009/02/10 10:47] Saijanai Kuhn: udnerstands barely enough to know that's an obscure joke
[2009/02/10 10:47] Mirt Tenk: goodbye
[2009/02/10 10:47] Zha Ewry: No where di that blue tang goe
[2009/02/10 10:47] Infinity Linden: lol
[2009/02/10 10:47] Zha Ewry: Ahh.. There
[2009/02/10 10:48] Infinity Linden: lol
[2009/02/10 10:48] Infinity Linden: kk. cheers peeps. i have to go toil in the underground sugar mines